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sfd
01-15-2013, 07:47 PM
I am curious what you guys think of a true AWD system (always on/permanent like Subaru's AWD, Jeep, etc) compared to the Active AWD/4WD systems (like the Haldex based systems usually deployed in the Audi A3, Golf R, Honda, etc).

Unfortunately the A3 will be leaving the stable some time soon due to the need for a AWD/4WD vehicle that is automatic and has a little ground clearance. I've generally been looking at small SUVs/CUVs but I'm bothered by the variations in the systems and whether or not one will be better than the other.

Obviously what matters is driving style and conditions. We're talking a daily driver that will see rain, sleet, snow (upwards of 4 inches or better if it gets bad), 1-2 inches of sand (on pavement), and the ability to drive into those conditions without pre-planning. I keep leaning towards a fully permanent system or at least manually select-able part time system like Ford (Explorer) and Nissan (Murano) deploy for the no-hassle approach however a FWD or RWD bias system may not be that bad considering they are so quick and seem to be have decent prediction systems to figure out where to put power in advance. Most of the cars/CUVs I've considered would fall into a FWD bias active system.

Thoughts? The vehicle will be carrying kids (none of my own at this time) so that keeps me leaning towards full AWD systems as well to ensure maximum safety.

If Subaru would get their heads out of their asses and instead of putting a CVT on the new Forester give it a real auto, I'd snatch one of those up with the boosted engine. The 4speed auto available today turns me away for good reason as well. Outback looks like a turd, and everything else is either dated or under powered.

I'm trying my hardest to stay away from Audi just due to my love/hate with my A3 but the A3 quattro, A4 avant, Q5 and VW's Tiguan all meet everything I need between power, luxury, and good active or full AWD systems. :(

EXCellR8
01-15-2013, 08:17 PM
i would think that the main advantage to active AWD/4WD is fuel economy but I don't really know. unless you're driving through the snow or the road is slick with rain and shit true AWD seems like a waste to me. safety is gonna come down to the overall rating of the vehicle and not just the drive layout.

i'd be driving a WRX right now if it didn't get the fuel economy of a bulldozer...

Gustav129
01-15-2013, 08:43 PM
I love my manual 4wd drive system. I'm not a fan of AWD (viscous coupler, active clutch pack, and such [fwd biased as you mention])

civcmatt
01-15-2013, 09:16 PM
the computer systems in these 4WD systems is redic these days. they are so smart i really dont see a difference in them. the only type of advantage i see over a True AWD system is that its always engaged so you are less likely to get in a sticky situation....vs 4WD system thats FWD at first....you get your front tires sinking...back tires then kick in at 30-40% of power...and its too late. (again dont know how true this would be with the new systems)

other main plus of 4WD is fuel...with what you are drivng in im sure either would do just fine. just get a second rim for snow tires and youll be good.

civcmatt
01-15-2013, 09:18 PM
I love my manual 4wd drive system. I'm not a fan of AWD (viscous coupler, active clutch pack, and such [fwd biased as you mention])

and selectable is the way to go but then again....most cars dont have that...its a main feature of 4x4

EXCellR8
01-15-2013, 11:41 PM
if the FJ was true AWD that shit would no joke prob get 9mpg. i used a active AWD '03 montero v6 a few winters ago to make the drive to school. that truck was pretty small but oh my god did it love to chug gas. it didn't help that it needed some maintenance but for a small truck I thought it was terrible. did it's job but i had to open my wallet almost every time I drove it. now i just fucking rough it with FWD... things get a little slippy but you just take it easy and you're fine. the worst part about front wheel is when you lose traction you have trouble turning but having MT def helps.

i haven't driven the Fit too much in the snow but it's much like the Civic with a slightly shorter wheelbase.

boofthese
01-16-2013, 12:05 AM
I just got a truck, z71, idk how ive lived so long without one :( ill prolly never own another fwd car again.

EXCellR8
01-16-2013, 12:29 AM
not really much of a truck person... unless i need to plow or haul furniture or something I'm all set.

boofthese
01-16-2013, 12:38 AM
Yes...no ?
I think its pretty bad ass
http://www.houston-imports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=662279

sfd
01-16-2013, 10:54 AM
Yea Excel my Audi is FWD and manual which is OK but I'm more worried about the woman. As well as these stupid random situations I run into where I need to tow something or do some mini off roading that the A3 fails me every time.

I think I may just end up with a Grand Cherokee at some point. If I go with a bias, real time system, I'll likely go with Ford or Mazda.I like the CX-5 but it's too under powered. They need to put a 170hp diesel in there making over 220ft of tq and it'll be amazing.

Actually Jeep is a bit retarded with dumping the Compass. Now that they gave it a real 6speed auto, if they will just put the v6 in there, I bet they would sell like crazy. Who doesn't want a baby Grand Cherokee?

Stealth
01-16-2013, 11:15 AM
First remember that audi was the brand that brought awd to the forefront. Most awd systems nowadays rely on sophisticated electronics and pneumatics (viscous coupling) to distribute torque. Audi has been using the same all mechanical Torsen differential system from the beginning and has perfected it over the years. Explaining it hear would be too lengthy, if you really want to know how awd works, and the different types, click the link below. Bottom line is, when it comes to driving through bad weather, the quattro awd system is still the most simple and effective of them all.


http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/traction/tech_traction_4wd_2.htm

civcmatt
01-16-2013, 11:26 AM
if the FJ was true AWD that shit would no joke prob get 9mpg.

If you get a 6spd Man...they are all time AWD with selectable Low gear. and stock they get about 15


I think I may just end up with a Grand Cherokee at some point. If I go with a bias, real time system, I'll likely go with Ford or Mazda.I like the CX-5 but it's too under powered. They need to put a 170hp diesel in there making over 220ft of tq and it'll be amazing.

Actually Jeep is a bit retarded with dumping the Compass. Now that they gave it a real 6speed auto, if they will just put the v6 in there, I bet they would sell like crazy. Who doesn't want a baby Grand Cherokee?

Jeep Cher....my brother had the last model...NO joke that thing was IMPOSSIBLE to get sideways. i tried...hard and could never do it. those things are monsters in snow. i was plowing snow with the bumper and i never felt out of control. and Ice...no worries.

and my mom used to have a Compass and that thing was pretty good actually. it was a true time AWD system and 5spd man got like 28MPG...however it had a selectable low gear which was wicked nice!

ISPKI
01-16-2013, 12:31 PM
Who wants a jeep nowadays period? Those vehicles have been garbage for years now.

I would personally go with a vehicle that is well built and reliable like a subaru over a vehicle that has absolutely horrible reliability ratings...

On a side note, I have a 2000 Nissan xterra that is great in the snow. I have it taken into some deep snow banks (we are talking a couple feet deep) and it has yet to get stuck. Sits high, rides decently well, is not built like a piece of shit. It has 155k on it and runs well.

sfd
01-16-2013, 02:31 PM
Problem is any automatic Subaru that makes power either has a retarded gearbox or looks like some 4 year old sculpted a turd for a class project. Otherwise they would be perfect.

Tribeca - Not a bad option but old, tired, and gets poor reviews
Forester - 4speed automatic? Yea no thanks and gets ragged on for sucking the performance and gas mileage from an otherwise sound car. Now they are going to a CVT and no one wants that nonsense.
Outback - Another great option (3.6 v6 and 5speed auto with all kinds of features) however styling wise it is a shaped turd on wheels. Probably their best driver friendly family car.
Impreza - I'd like to be able to merge in traffic and not die
STI/WRX - No automatic and that thing was far from family friendly.
XV - Raised Impreza so same issues

I actually really like the Xterra. Gas mileage is kind of crappy and no heated seats though. Wish it had heated seats!

I'm super picky which is why I'll probably have to get a luxury/German based CUV/SUV which sucks because I'd rather buy cheaper and American (or Japanese) this go around. Cars like the GMC Terrain, Ford Edge, Dodge Journey, etc would probably be the few options on US soil. Hell even Jeep/Dodge can't really be considered all American at this point with Fiat's involvement.

Stealth
01-17-2013, 08:19 AM
If you want to get around in the snow, you will need snow tires.

Shit tires with any type of awd/4wd will never be good.

91integrs
01-17-2013, 06:36 PM
Surprised Matt has not mentioned the 4runner. I cannot comment on the 4wheel drive system of the 4runners, since mine is only two-wheel, but from what I have read, they're about as good as the Jeep Cherokee. However, I can comment on how duriable the 4runner is and how nice they're to drive. I have had my 06 runner for almost 3 years, put almost 40K on it, and have not had one problem with it. The V6 has plenty of power and gas milege is about 20-22MPG, unless you drive like an asshole.

Only other SUV that I have had positive experience with is, the Nissan Xterra. I almost bought one instead of my 4runner, which it sounds like you have had experience with as well.

civcmatt
01-18-2013, 05:43 PM
Surprised Matt has not mentioned the 4runner. I cannot comment on the 4wheel drive system of the 4runners, since mine is only two-wheel, but from what I have read, they're about as good as the Jeep Cherokee. However, I can comment on how duriable the 4runner is and how nice they're to drive. I have had my 06 runner for almost 3 years, put almost 40K on it, and have not had one problem with it. The V6 has plenty of power and gas milege is about 20-22MPG, unless you drive like an asshole.

Only other SUV that I have had positive experience with is, the Nissan Xterra. I almost bought one instead of my 4runner, which it sounds like you have had experience with as well.


well never was brought up haha....but ive only driven in a little bit of snow in mine...never been scared or anything. but on the other side of it im rocking a 97 with ZERO assistance like the others have. im open diff no traction assist or anything. but it does dang good even without it. ive only "had" to put it in 4x4 like 2 times lol. (we havent been getting snow at all) but i will tell you there hasnt been anywhere my dads FJ went that my old ass runner hasnt gone.

as far as gas...stock ones get pretty good...but im lifted a total of 5in and have 33s on it and get tops 17.

but i will comment on your reliability thing...Ill take your Pussy 40k miles and raise ya 166,000 miles. thing has 206k miles on it...plenty of power and still rocks like a beast-a-don