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Punisher11
06-11-2012, 10:38 AM
835

AR15 heavy barrel 16" upper with bolt carrier group, charging handle, and a MOE grip. Cost was 470$ Shipped from PSA.

im waiting for them to get a mid/light weight in, possbily doing a piston conversion.

hell, may even try 300blk

ISPKI
06-12-2012, 12:29 AM
Mid Length/Light Profile (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/complete-uppers/psa-16-mid-length-light-profile-cl-mp-premium-upper.html) ???

It is only 20$ more than my heavy profile mid length. What is 300blk?

Punisher11
06-14-2012, 04:14 PM
Mid Length/Light Profile (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/complete-uppers/psa-16-mid-length-light-profile-cl-mp-premium-upper.html) ???

It is only 20$ more than my heavy profile mid length. What is 300blk?

.300 aac black out, its a relatively new round designed to maximize the m4 in terms of stopping power and suppressor use. it much bigger than 5.56 (its 7.62 x 35mm) but you can still use the same mags

ISPKI
06-15-2012, 12:39 AM
7.62x35...What is the diameter of the case? I am assuming it is a case that is larger than your avg 30cal case necked down to 30cal? Perhaps it is that 452SOCOM case necked down to accept the .308?

ISPKI
06-15-2012, 12:56 AM
Never mind my previous post. It is just a really really short (and slow) 308... It seems the only reason for it is for subsonic needs, as it's velocity and energy are significantly lower than most other rounds that are used in the AR platform (5.56/6.8spc/6.5grendel). I would much rather use the 6.8spc, as it seems to be somewhere in between the 556 and larger rounds like the 308 and the 300blackout. 6.8 maintains a solid velocity and is proven to maintain that velocity over a very long distance.

In fact, a 110 grain 6.8 will maintain a higher velocity out past 400 yards than the 556, and deliver significantly more stopping power at those ranges, despite having a significantly lower initial velocity.

Here is the real reason why I would go with the 6.8 - it has already been implemented and developed. Palmetto state armory has about 8 full uppers on sale right now chambered in 6.8 and they arent even that expensive - perhaps only 50$ more than my 5.56 upper. And all you need is the bolt, magazine, and barrel to shoot the 6.8, but the upper receiver is so cheap and the changeover from 5.56 to 6.8 is so easy with a fully assembled upper, you might as well have the whole upper.

300blackout seems neato, but it doesnt seem to have any purpose outside of special military operations, meaning it probably wont be popular amongst the general populace which will make it extremely expensive and difficult to come by.

Punisher11
06-15-2012, 03:38 PM
Never mind my previous post. It is just a really really short (and slow) 308... It seems the only reason for it is for subsonic needs, as it's velocity and energy are significantly lower than most other rounds that are used in the AR platform (5.56/6.8spc/6.5grendel). I would much rather use the 6.8spc, as it seems to be somewhere in between the 556 and larger rounds like the 308 and the 300blackout. 6.8 maintains a solid velocity and is proven to maintain that velocity over a very long distance.

In fact, a 110 grain 6.8 will maintain a higher velocity out past 400 yards than the 556, and deliver significantly more stopping power at those ranges, despite having a significantly lower initial velocity.

Here is the real reason why I would go with the 6.8 - it has already been implemented and developed. Palmetto state armory has about 8 full uppers on sale right now chambered in 6.8 and they arent even that expensive - perhaps only 50$ more than my 5.56 upper. And all you need is the bolt, magazine, and barrel to shoot the 6.8, but the upper receiver is so cheap and the changeover from 5.56 to 6.8 is so easy with a fully assembled upper, you might as well have the whole upper.

300blackout seems neato, but it doesnt seem to have any purpose outside of special military operations, meaning it probably wont be popular amongst the general populace which will make it extremely expensive and difficult to come by.

have you seen the 6.5 grendel? it out performs 6.8spc

its an after thought though. i have a lower sitting here, i can just get the uppers to play with. considering i can get 30 300BLK to fit in a 30 round (pre ban) 5.556 round, i thought it was great that i can get a positive 30 cal without having to buy 30 cal only mags. the 6.5grendel can do the same, but you lose 4 on full capacity (30 round mag = 26 etc)

ISPKI
06-16-2012, 01:22 AM
I have seen it. My grandfather's friend has full upper receivers in 308, 6.8spc, 6.5 grendel (that was the first one he got) and 458 socom. Ironically, he doesnt have one in 556. The grendel is lighter, and thus has higher velocity, but it has less stopping power as it is a smaller and lighter bullet. I was mentioning the 6.8 because it gives you a great compromise between the speed of the 5.56 and the stopping power of the 308, but it is less expensive for the ammo and less expensive for the parts than the 6.5, and it is significantly more available than the 6.5 (as I noted earlier, PSA has almost as many uppers in 6.8 as they do in 5.56, they dont have any in 6.5 grendel). I dont see any advantage to the 300black out. It is larger and shorter than the 6.8. It has less velocity than the 6.8. It may have more stopping power, but it will lose velocity over any sort of distance due to it's significantly lessened initial velocity. I would be interested in seeing it perform and how you like it, I just dont see the point of it. If you want more stopping power than a 5.56, why not get an AR10 in .308? That would have significantly more stopping power than the 300 black out, and be significantly cheaper.

Punisher11
06-16-2012, 10:32 AM
I have seen it. My grandfather's friend has full upper receivers in 308, 6.8spc, 6.5 grendel (that was the first one he got) and 458 socom. Ironically, he doesnt have one in 556. The grendel is lighter, and thus has higher velocity, but it has less stopping power as it is a smaller and lighter bullet. I was mentioning the 6.8 because it gives you a great compromise between the speed of the 5.56 and the stopping power of the 308, but it is less expensive for the ammo and less expensive for the parts than the 6.5, and it is significantly more available than the 6.5 (as I noted earlier, PSA has almost as many uppers in 6.8 as they do in 5.56, they dont have any in 6.5 grendel). I dont see any advantage to the 300black out. It is larger and shorter than the 6.8. It has less velocity than the 6.8. It may have more stopping power, but it will lose velocity over any sort of distance due to it's significantly lessened initial velocity. I would be interested in seeing it perform and how you like it, I just dont see the point of it. If you want more stopping power than a 5.56, why not get an AR10 in .308? That would have significantly more stopping power than the 300 black out, and be significantly cheaper.

cause the 308 does not perform well in shorter than 16in barrels. im looking to make compact and light weight.

ISPKI
06-16-2012, 05:36 PM
I am going to have to disagree with that statement. After looking at some results on various forums, it appears that .308 performs fine in short barrel applications. Obviously it loses some power, but every round loses power as the barrel gets shorter. I was just on a forum where a fella was shooting holes through a 1/2inch steel I beam with a barrel length of 9in. That was at 100yds. From what I have read, the "308 not performing well in shorter than 16in barrels" is untrue. I think it will still perform better than the 300 blackout.

ISPKI
06-16-2012, 05:44 PM
Here (http://www.pof-usa.com/pdf_files/P-308ballistictestresults.pdf) is a set of data collected that shows the accuracy and velocity changes based on barrel length with the 308 round. Note that accuracy does not diminish between using a 16.5in and a 14 inch barrel. Velocity drops by around 50-60 F/s in the 14.5in barrel. Most people say that 16in is the perfect barrel length for 308.

ISPKI
06-16-2012, 05:47 PM
Also - the grouping at 100 yds using 168 hornady match ammo with a 14in barrel was 1/4-1/2". With a 16.5in barrel: 1/4-1". Heres the shocker - with a 24in barrel: .700-1"...

Punisher11
06-16-2012, 06:15 PM
I am going to have to disagree with that statement. After looking at some results on various forums, it appears that .308 performs fine in short barrel applications. Obviously it loses some power, but every round loses power as the barrel gets shorter. I was just on a forum where a fella was shooting holes through a 1/2inch steel I beam with a barrel length of 9in. That was at 100yds. From what I have read, the "308 not performing well in shorter than 16in barrels" is untrue. I think it will still perform better than the 300 blackout.

Im not saying its a bad round. my main point is that i do not have to buy more mags and change my gear around to add another weapon. the 300 uses all my current gear and current capacities. the price point is another mater, but since i have a non used lower, all i require is an upper which is just around $400. considering my current load out, getting an AR-10/POF/SCAR-H/M1A would be much more costly. the rounds are cheap, ill give you that (id def would be running tula in a 7.62). but the 300 is made from the .223 cases, which i have hundreds of. reloading for 300 would just be a matter of buying dies and bullets

and while the testing does prove accuracy on a rest the same could be said for the 300. and Im not sure if you've felt the recoil off a .308 in a short barrel, but its not as pleasant to say the least (thus why the AK-74 was made for CQB)

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/07/foghorn/ammunition-review-300-aac-blackout/

saying 16in is the perfect length is dependent on what you would need it. I could go smaller and turn this into an AR pistol, and the 300 would still perform (the link has data from a 9in barrel out performing the 308). However 16 is the minimum required length for a rfile in nys.

we could go on to infinite about which would be better, and then these rounds would be anemic to the 50bmg or .338 lapua.

c_morse
06-16-2012, 10:47 PM
Here's a thread for you guys to talk about anything not specifically related to another thread in this sub-forum. Have fun!

ISPKI
06-17-2012, 12:34 AM
Here's a thread for you guys to talk about anything not specifically related to another thread in this sub-forum. Have fun!

Thanks good lookin'.

It is an interesting round. You are going to have to post info once you get it set up. I would be interested in seeing if they make a round for the .223 case that does not require a neck at all. My grandfather used to reload 444 Marlin that has no neck, and his cases would last for a very long time.

Punisher11
06-17-2012, 09:25 AM
Thanks good lookin'.

It is an interesting round. You are going to have to post info once you get it set up. I would be interested in seeing if they make a round for the .223 case that does not require a neck at all. My grandfather used to reload 444 Marlin that has no neck, and his cases would last for a very long time.

of course, but it will be down the road (possibly end of the year).

i bought a NFA polymer lower, 40+30 fee, = $70- which reminds me ill need to post a pic of it- i want to make it a whore lower (takes everything in) and since i have a 5.56 long upper, i wanted to do something different. i could also go the opposite end and grab a .22 upper, or even a 5.7