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View Full Version : Thinking about buying a Mosin Nagant this weekend



Cage
10-12-2012, 03:56 PM
Honestly, i dont know a whole lot about them, but for 100.00. . . can you really go wrong with these rifles?

Thinking ill just do some small mods to it. . . ATI composite stock or a thumb hole stock, bent bolt so i can fit a tri-rail scope slot, and put some legs on it. . . kinda like this

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/attachments/mosin-nagant/12916d1218596289-post-your-scoped-mosin-nagant-dscn1936.jpg

Punisher11
10-12-2012, 05:03 PM
do it, ISPKI has a really nice one that he worked on.

Cage
10-12-2012, 10:26 PM
do it, ISPKI has a really nice one that he worked on.

if it gets the Pun seal of approval. . . then it must be :)

Ill pick mine up tomorrow. . . just need to decide on round receiver or hex-receiver

ISPKI
10-13-2012, 04:41 PM
Do it. The shape of the receiver does not matter. Hex is marginally more collectible but they do not shoot any better than round. 100$ is a solid price for one, they usually go for a little bit more than that (110$-130$). Check the bore and the crown before you buy one. If the bore looks sharp and you do not see a whole lot of pitting or rust, then that is a keeper. Keep in mind, these rifles are tough as nails, they will stand up to obnoxious volumes of punishment. The receiver is big and thick and heavy, the bolt is gigantic compared to the other bolt action rifles from WW2, the walls of the chamber are stupid thick etc etc etc.

ISPKI
10-13-2012, 04:47 PM
There is a decent after market following for these. A big reason for this is that they have the longest service history of any firearm...ever. These have been used in some nation's military for over 100 years ending with China in the early 2000s. In fact, the chinese made a scope mount for these rifles that I modified and mounted on mine that can be had for cheap (45-60$).

There are many variations of the rifle. The most common is the M91/30. That is the original rifle entered service in 1891 and was revised in 1930. the USSR/Tsar empire manufactured many millions of these. Some other models are the M44 Cavalry Carbine (these are short), the M91 (the original), the M28, M28/30, M39, M28/76 etc etc etc. The list just goes on and on. If you spot one made by Remington or Westinghouse for that price, GET IT, as those are extremely rare and valuable. If the top of the barrel is marked Ishevsk or Tula, then you know it is a Russian rifle and is the least valuable. Do not let this think that they are of lower quality, it is just that during war time, all of Russia either makes guns or shoots guns, they just made a ton of them.

Once you get one, post some photos of the markings on the top of the barrel/receiver and I can tell you a little more about it. Also - If you want to do some mods to it, let me know. I can do custom bolt bending and custom muzzle brakes - In fact, I just finished a new muzzle brake prototype using the springloaded bayonet base with a modern muzzle brake welded on the end of it. Very cheap and very effective as the bayonets are usually given away for free when you purchase a rifle.

Also - Keep in mind that when the Russian military sighted these rifles in, they did so with the bayonet on the rifle. If you shoot it without the bayonet on, the oscillation of the barrel will be off which will cause the rifle to shoot notoriously high.

ISPKI
10-13-2012, 04:54 PM
I have This Bipod (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NcStar-Harris-Style-Bipod-Fullsize-Bi-pod-3-Adapters-mounts-ABPGF-/310405527474?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item48459c77b2) on my rifle. Its cheap, and it took some modifying to make it work to my liking but it works and it folds and telescopes and has a sling swivel mount and looks pretty good on the rifle.

Cage
10-14-2012, 10:17 AM
There is a decent after market following for these. A big reason for this is that they have the longest service history of any firearm...ever. These have been used in some nation's military for over 100 years ending with China in the early 2000s. In fact, the chinese made a scope mount for these rifles that I modified and mounted on mine that can be had for cheap (45-60$).

There are many variations of the rifle. The most common is the M91/30. That is the original rifle entered service in 1891 and was revised in 1930. the USSR/Tsar empire manufactured many millions of these. Some other models are the M44 Cavalry Carbine (these are short), the M91 (the original), the M28, M28/30, M39, M28/76 etc etc etc. The list just goes on and on. If you spot one made by Remington or Westinghouse for that price, GET IT, as those are extremely rare and valuable. If the top of the barrel is marked Ishevsk or Tula, then you know it is a Russian rifle and is the least valuable. Do not let this think that they are of lower quality, it is just that during war time, all of Russia either makes guns or shoots guns, they just made a ton of them.

Once you get one, post some photos of the markings on the top of the barrel/receiver and I can tell you a little more about it. Also - If you want to do some mods to it, let me know. I can do custom bolt bending and custom muzzle brakes - In fact, I just finished a new muzzle brake prototype using the springloaded bayonet base with a modern muzzle brake welded on the end of it. Very cheap and very effective as the bayonets are usually given away for free when you purchase a rifle.

Also - Keep in mind that when the Russian military sighted these rifles in, they did so with the bayonet on the rifle. If you shoot it without the bayonet on, the oscillation of the barrel will be off which will cause the rifle to shoot notoriously high.

thanks man

Gun store is closed this weekend, i tried to hit it up yesterday morning with no luck.

They are selling the m91/30's for 159.00, but each one has had the head space and fire pin checked and verified. But will need to be broken down to clean all the cosmoline

considering the FFA fee and the shipping, thats realistically what i would be paying for one anyway shipped to my door.

The first thing i want done is the trigger and stock. Im leaning toward the ATI synthetic stock, or a Boyds thumb hole stock. Undecided so far.

As far as the iron sites, I dont know if it will be an issue, because i really want to cut the barrel down to 22". would it be worth getting a muzzle break if i cut the barrel down?

I definitely want a bent bolt, and will need help cutting in threads for the site mount.

I may just grab some high rise 22 scope rings and run a scout scope setup for now, im not good enough with gun smithing to start drilling threads for scope mounts lol

If i bought all the hardware how much would you charge for at least the bent bolt and muzzle break?

Cage
10-14-2012, 10:34 AM
lol

I would love to put this stock on a Mosin

http://www.cbrps.com/publishImages/Products~~element322.jpg

but i dont think i could justify a 300.00+ stock on a 100.00 rifle

ISPKI
10-14-2012, 10:53 AM
Personally, I would shoot for the synthetic stock first just because you can do all kinds of shit to it and not feel bad about chopping it up. Its also easier to work with than the wood that Boyd's uses.

I have a Finnish built M28/30 Mosin Nagant. The Finns were legendary for taking the crude Mosin Nagant and doing small, effective alterations to various parts of them. The result is that the Finnish built Mosin Nagants are considered the best of the best, they are competition grade military rifles. One thing they did to my M28/30 was to add a large torsion spring to the trigger. Russian M91/30s have a notoriously shitty trigger because it just kind of flops there. Nothing keeps pressure on it and the pull has to flex this giant plank of steel to release the firing pin. I will take a picture of the torsion spring mod on my M28/30 for you later. It makes a huge difference and costs all of a few $.

As far as the muzzle brake - These rifles do kick very hard. It stopped bursting blood vessels in my shoulder after I fired about 600 rounds, but it still bruises the shit out of my shoulder if I shoot a few hundred rounds at a time. If you cut the barrel down, its going to kick significantly harder. My very good friend has an M44 carbine model that has a barrel of similar length and it kicks like a god damn mule, so, I would definately recommend the muzzle brake. The issue I see with this is that the barrel tapers down quite a bit on these guns, so, I would need to know the diameter of the barrel after you cut it down.

I am going to do the final weld on the prototype muzzle brake today. Will send some photos later when its done. I am not really interested in making any money on these mods. Besides I do not have decades of experience on this stuff to really justifying charging service fees and shit. Make sure you do a good recrowning job if you cut the barrel, and the iron sights would be thrown off anyways from cutting it down, so, might as well just scope it at that point.

Also - This cope mount (http://www.jmeckscopemounts.com/) is made by a guy on my Mosin Nagant forum. Everyone on there uses it and they all say that it is really really good. No gunsmithing required - it just wraps the receiver.

Be careful which scope you get for it. It really does kick very hard. I have shattered cheap scopes before with my rifles.

ISPKI
10-14-2012, 10:54 AM
Hah, that is a cool stock. I would consider that for my m28/30, since my stock was chopped up years ago anyway.

Just curious: why do you want to cut the barrel down anyway?

Cage
10-14-2012, 11:05 AM
Personally, I would shoot for the synthetic stock first just because you can do all kinds of shit to it and not feel bad about chopping it up. Its also easier to work with than the wood that Boyd's uses.

I have a Finnish built M28/30 Mosin Nagant. The Finns were legendary for taking the crude Mosin Nagant and doing small, effective alterations to various parts of them. The result is that the Finnish built Mosin Nagants are considered the best of the best, they are competition grade military rifles. One thing they did to my M28/30 was to add a large torsion spring to the trigger. Russian M91/30s have a notoriously shitty trigger because it just kind of flops there. Nothing keeps pressure on it and the pull has to flex this giant plank of steel to release the firing pin. I will take a picture of the torsion spring mod on my M28/30 for you later. It makes a huge difference and costs all of a few $.

As far as the muzzle brake - These rifles do kick very hard. It stopped bursting blood vessels in my shoulder after I fired about 600 rounds, but it still bruises the shit out of my shoulder if I shoot a few hundred rounds at a time. If you cut the barrel down, its going to kick significantly harder. My very good friend has an M44 carbine model that has a barrel of similar length and it kicks like a god damn mule, so, I would definately recommend the muzzle brake. The issue I see with this is that the barrel tapers down quite a bit on these guns, so, I would need to know the diameter of the barrel after you cut it down.

I am going to do the final weld on the prototype muzzle brake today. Will send some photos later when its done. I am not really interested in making any money on these mods. Besides I do not have decades of experience on this stuff to really justifying charging service fees and shit. Make sure you do a good recrowning job if you cut the barrel, and the iron sights would be thrown off anyways from cutting it down, so, might as well just scope it at that point.

Also - This cope mount (http://www.jmeckscopemounts.com/) is made by a guy on my Mosin Nagant forum. Everyone on there uses it and they all say that it is really really good. No gunsmithing required - it just wraps the receiver.

Be careful which scope you get for it. It really does kick very hard. I have shattered cheap scopes before with my rifles.

awesome man, yea, when i pick mine up, ill definitely be interested in that muzzle break.

As far as the scope, with the kick ive seen in videos, im really considering a long eye scope setup. Id be afraid to shoot that thing with a scope pressed up to my face lol

but yea man, ill definitely give you a shout as soon as i get the gun. Ill break it all down and send you pics of the markings. Thanks for all the help man.

This will be my first bolt action rifle. So im kind of stoked for this one.

Cage
10-14-2012, 11:23 AM
Hah, that is a cool stock. I would consider that for my m28/30, since my stock was chopped up years ago anyway.

Just curious: why do you want to cut the barrel down anyway?

the barrel just looks really long from what ive seen. Ive seen 22" barrels on that ATI stock, and the setup just looked really nice.

Ive been getting alot of info from this guy as he does an entire series on sporterizing a m91/30 using a boyds stock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOVs3nenJ-w&list=UUWJHDMgKWWvOsdyRF3HPVEw&index=370&feature=plpp_video

ISPKI
10-14-2012, 04:18 PM
Headspacing and firing pin wear has never really been an issue on Mosin Nagants. This is due to the design of the locking lugs. The lugs are on the bolt head and are very large. This means that there is little to no material that can expand and separate the headspace. Compare this to a Lee Enfield, where the locking lugs on the rear of the bolt. On those designs, there is a very long section of metal on the receiver and bolt that can expand and create headspacing issue. I was talking this over with my buddy Nick who recalled a conversation he had with a 30+ year professional gunsmith. In over 30 years and hundreds of Mosin Nagants that he has checked the headspacing on, he has never seen one with headspacing issues.

Same goes for the firing pin, the pins in these rifles are larger, longer, and have more robust locks on them. Unless someone does something retarded to them, you will not have any issues.

The problem I am seeing with this muzzle brake is that I usually spend some time custom fitting them to the rifle. Since these rifles were so mass produced, most armories did not bother to clean up their lathe work on the outside of the barrels, resulting in very coarse and uneven outside Diameters. I usually can do this with some filing to get the spring loaded lock to fit around the iron sights, and wrapping a dowel in sand paper to open up the inside diameter of the muzzle brake.

ISPKI
10-14-2012, 04:20 PM
Here we will come to a new problem. My muzzle brakes use the bayonet lock to attach to the rifle. If you cut the barrel, you wont have Iron sights, thus, The lock on the muzzle brake will not work. If you decide to cut the barrel, you will most likely have to tap the barrel and attach a brake that way. OR, if you are handy with soldering, brazing, or welding, you could try to just reattach the sight base. Keep in mind, my muzzlebrakes are large, they will add about 3in to the overall length.

Cage
10-14-2012, 11:33 PM
I can hold off on cutting down the barrel. Its just an idea i had in my head, but not neccesary

Hopefully ill have it in my hands by weeks end.

Do you have any pics posted of ur current setup?

ISPKI
10-16-2012, 12:26 AM
I have done alot of work since my last picks were taken. Will have to add some new photos to my long list of photos ahaha.

Honestly, cutting down the barrel will only make the firearm less accurate from an operational standpoint. If you want a shorter barrel Mosin Nagant, ask the people at the store if they have an M44 model. It will cost you a little more as they are somewhat more rare, but, they have a much shorter barrel and are actually designed like that. I am not saying you should not cut the barrel down on a full length M91/30, but, there is a significant amount of work involved in it. It is not like cutting a shotgun barrel where you just saw it off and enjoy. If you do it wrong on an M91/30, you could kill people with the shrapnel from the bullet exploding when it exits the barrel.

Check out this video for a nice comparison on how an M44 behaves. The guy closest to the camera in the green hoody is my buddy Nick and he is shooting a 1935 M44 model Mosin Nagant. I am that big SOB three people down who shoots faster than everyone else. That is my rifle pre mod.

Cage
10-17-2012, 02:30 PM
I have done alot of work since my last picks were taken. Will have to add some new photos to my long list of photos ahaha.

Honestly, cutting down the barrel will only make the firearm less accurate from an operational standpoint. If you want a shorter barrel Mosin Nagant, ask the people at the store if they have an M44 model. It will cost you a little more as they are somewhat more rare, but, they have a much shorter barrel and are actually designed like that. I am not saying you should not cut the barrel down on a full length M91/30, but, there is a significant amount of work involved in it. It is not like cutting a shotgun barrel where you just saw it off and enjoy. If you do it wrong on an M91/30, you could kill people with the shrapnel from the bullet exploding when it exits the barrel.

Check out this video for a nice comparison on how an M44 behaves. The guy closest to the camera in the green hoody is my buddy Nick and he is shooting a 1935 M44 model Mosin Nagant. I am that big SOB three people down who shoots faster than everyone else. That is my rifle pre mod.

dont see a link for the vid

ISPKI
10-18-2012, 12:36 AM
PSH damn internet...

http://youtu.be/1RP4LQrduLg

ISPKI
10-28-2012, 04:28 PM
10251026102710281029103010311032

Here are some recent photos of my setup. I stripped most of the bluing off the barrel as it was all scratched up anyways. Havent put it back on yet. This thing cycles like butter, I can aim down the scope and cycle without taking my eyes off target. I havent gotten the scope accurate yet as I havent been shooting this too often with all my other projects going on. With the irons, I can hit a bowling pin at 100yds pretty easily. I can probably hit about 4 MOA at 100yds with the irons right now, but that could just be my own limitations as I do not get to shoot too frequently. The bore is kept in as perfect condition as I can keep it. I have a new barrel waiting to be installed on this rifle that has a "never fired" bore. It is literally mirror like with blueing still on the inside and a perfect factory crown. What is awesome about these rifles is that a perfect condition barrel cost me 30$. Try getting that with a springfield or a k98 or a lee enfield or any other rifle like this. The barrel can be removed and reinstalled yourself assuming you can come up with a heavy enough vice and a large enough breaker bar (breaking torque is usually around 500ish).

Cage
10-29-2012, 12:45 AM
nice man, thats really the exact set up im looking for

I still havent pulled the trigger on one yet.

I went to a gun show, and all of them just looked really beat up.

There is a local gun shop selling them for 159.00, but i found a guy selling 2 of them, im waiting to hear back from him

ISPKI
10-29-2012, 11:50 PM
Alot of them are going to look beat up and used, thats just how the russians rolled back in the day. They didnt give a shit how the rifle looked, they only cared about how it functioned. These rifles have never been treated well, they are cheap and generally abused, but, they are designed for that. So long a it functions well and the bore is decent and the crown is decent, I wouldnt worry about fit and finish. You are going to be replacing the stock anyways right? In fact, I would prefer looking for one that appears well used, that way you can use it as a bargaining chip. I picked up the rifle in the above photos for 60$ because the stock was pretty shitty looking. The bore is good, the crown was good, the action was smoooooth and barely worn in at all. There is a spot on the underside of the bolt that will tell you how worn out the rifle is. Will take pictures of it later, after this hurricane maybe...

ISPKI
12-16-2012, 01:21 AM
Well Cage? Did you get one?

Cage
12-16-2012, 10:42 PM
still havent bought one. .

but its on my list, my brothers house was broken in to and his TV got stolen. I gave him mine, so now between christmas expenses and forking out 1700.00 for a new TV for myself, the rifle was bumped down on my list of priorities. But all is well, seems there are enough of them out there, i have plenty of time to purchase one.

ISPKI
12-18-2012, 02:08 AM
Well check out this website:

http://7.62x54r.net/

Get familiar with the barrel and receiver markings. Alot of people do not realize how valuable some of these firearms can be. A french made Mosin Nagant can easily fetch 1000$ or more - same goes for an early finnish captured one with a barrel made by Sig. The best part is...people dont really look into the markings, you can usually find some really sweet deals at gun shows and stores.

For instance, I was just going over my Finnish M28/30 and found that the receiver was made by Remington, sold to the Soviet Union, captured by the Finns and redesigned and re-barreled with a barrel made in Belgium.

Cage
12-10-2013, 04:30 PM
Just revisiting this thread. . . I scored this stock off Ebay for 119.00

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/pheaturez/archangel_zps831af075.jpg

I still never got the Nagant, but much more motivation to get one now. All my local shops are out of stock. . . looks like ill have to order one from Buds so i can start my build.